<p>Justin and Jon are joined by Jason Fried to talk about:</p><ul>
<li>The philosophy behind their new book <a href="https://basecamp.com/shapeup">Shape Up</a>.</li>
<li>Does Basecamp's approach to 6-week cycles differ for smaller teams?</li>
<li>"Long projects destroy morale. When things don't ship, you get frustrated." – Jason Fried</li>
<li>Why projects ship late (it's human nature).</li>
<li>Why work is like a hill.</li>
<li>How they make product decisions at Basecamp.</li>
<li>How do you know what you should work on next?</li>
<li>Why they don't believe in backlogs.</li>
<li>"That feeling of 'there's nothing to do, but there's everything to do' shouldn't be happening." – Jason Fried</li>
<li>"You need a system at some point. When you have two people, you can hack your way to anything. But as soon as you grow, you'll need a system." – Jason Fried</li>
<li>"What we have is not a perfect system. And even if it was, we don't execute these things perfectly." – Jason Fried</li>
</ul><p><b>★ Thanks to our sponsors:</b></p><ul>
<li>
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</ul><p><b>Show notes:</b></p><ul>
<li>
<a href="https://twitter.com/jonbuda/status/1025429575281594369">Jon's launch announcement tweet</a> (from 2018).</li>
<li>Read Basecamp's new book <a href="https://basecamp.com/shapeup">Shape Up</a>.</li>
<li>Jason Fried commented on <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/posts/justinijackson_business-bootstrapping-startup-activity-6557467478967021568-RHV5">this Linkedin post</a>.</li>
<li>
<a href="https://basecamp.com/shapeup/3.4-chapter-12#work-is-like-a-hill">Hill charts</a>.</li>
<li>Listen to Rework Podcast's "<a href="https://rework.fm/shape-up-roundtable/">Shape Up Roundtable</a>."</li>
<li>Derek Sivers' new article: <a href="https://sivers.org/clothes">My old clothes don't fit</a>
</li>
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